Burl Spoon returns

By Steve Weddle

The year 2025 opens with a bang, as THEY ALL FALL THE SAME, Wes Browne's wonderful follow-up to HILLBILLY HUSTLE, drops January 7.

Cannabis kingpin Burl Spoon has reigned over the Jackson County area for three decades, building a powerful backwoods empire. But behind a well-run organization, his personal life is crumbling–his daughter can’t stay clean; his son has hated him since coming out; and after enduring years of infidelity, his wife is straying too. The only person not on his payroll who still adores him is his six-year-old granddaughter, Chelsea. 

When his daughter overdoses on heroin laced with fentanyl and one of his employees is murdered, Burl’s retaliation against Clovis Begley, the patriarch of the heroin-dealing family involved in both deaths, is inevitable. As Burl’s plan spirals into a firestorm of vengeance that threatens the safety of his granddaughter, his drive for revenge conflicts with his longing for redemption.

On the brink of losing everything, Burl must find a path between retribution and protecting what’s left of his family.

“Browne writes like the smart-talking, card-shuffling, 

bullet-dodging, bourbon-soaked loved child of Ron Rash, 

Elmore Leonard, and the Coen Brothers.”

—Benjamin Percy, author of The Dead Lands

Wes Browne at Noir at the Bar, B'con '24

I met Browne in back of a bar in Nashville, which sounds like the start to an explosive and unapologetic short story. 

Later, I had the chance to read THEY ALL FALL THE SAME, Browne's first from Crooked Lane Books. 

We recently chatted over email about the new book and how it grew from 2020's HILLBILLY HUSTLE, published by West Virginia University Press. We also discussed good bad guys, bad bad guys, heroin, dialog, and Ben Percy. Buckle up.

Steve Weddle: How long have you been living with Burl Spoon? What's his pull on you?

Wes Browne: I conceived Burl Spoon as a side character in a novel writing class at the Appalachian Writers’ Workshop in 2014. I sketched out something like six characters that week and he was one of the more peripheral ones. Burl wound up being a side character in my debut novel HILLBILLY HUSTLE. I pretty quickly noticed that people who loved that book tended to mention Burl early.

I had no interest in revisiting HILLBILLY HUSTLE after it was done. I not only wanted to write something new, but I wanted to write something more serious. Something darker. But I kept thinking about Burl. The dark moments in HILLBILLY HUSTLE that people responded to were all him. So I picked him up and took him out of there and started over with something new that I called SPOON. SPOON wound up becoming THEY ALL FALL THE SAME. When my agent signed me after reading the SPOON manuscript she had no idea Burl appeared in another book. It’s that self-contained.

I’ve practiced criminal law for twenty five years, and I’ve seen people do a lot of bad things. I’ve seen very few who didn’t have some good in them. That’s the pull of writing Burl. To make that case to readers. Burl’s objectively not a good person, but there are good qualities hidden within him. He’s capable of love. He’s capable of empathy. The rare instances when it comes out, it’s other characters in the book who draw it out of him. Walking that tightrope of constantly reminding readers of who they’re dealing with, and getting them to stay with him anyway, is the whole trick. That’s what I find most satisfying.

SW: You seem to have set up a family war between the Spoon family and the Begley family here. Aside from marijuana versus heroin, how do these families differ? How are they the same? Why root for one over the other?

WB: Clovis Begley and Burl Spoon are two versions of the same thing. Both fancy themselves family men, but one key difference is that Clovis’s family fear him to the point they’ll do almost anything he says, and Burl’s family have ceased to obey him. In Burl’s world, his family are the only people who don’t, and he struggles with it. It’s the erosion of Burl’s family that ultimately begins to undo him.

Heroin and marijuana are also somewhat representative of who Clovis and Burl are at heart. Clovis knows how destructive heroin is, but as long as it benefits him, he doesn’t care. Burl, on the other hand, doesn’t look to hurt people if he doesn’t have to, and he regards cannabis as harmless. Burl’s more than willing to resort to violence, but if he does, it’s going to be calculated, and it’s going to be targeted. It’s Clovis’s total indifference to the wellbeing of others—and specifically Burl’s daughter—that incites the conflict in this book.

SW: How important is it that you get the setting "right"? Would you move a courthouse across the street if the story demanded it?

WB: I choose to write about real places—mostly in Kentucky—and that creates the burden of being accurate. I visit my locations in person if I can, and on Google maps if I can’t. I know that many of the people who read what I write are going to know the places, and I hate for them to call bullshit. That said, if you look very closely, I might make small concessions if it serves the story. For instance, Greens Crossing is a real place in Madison County, but the fictional Begley Turfgrass Sod Co. is wedged into a place that kind of defies the real map. Burl’s farm is similar. It’s funny that you mention a courthouse. The old courthouse in McKee, Kentucky sits across the street from the new one, but I have been known to gloss over that fact.

SW: THEY ALL FALL THE SAME has been sold as "perfect for fans of S.A. Cosby and Eli Cranor." The gritty, southern crime fiction connection there is clear, but what else does this book share with their work? And how is it different?

WB: It’s funny that you ask that because I think about it a lot as the book release gets close. It’s nice from a marketing perspective for things like that to be said about your book, but it also sets up some pretty difficult expectations to meet. Some people are hyper-critical because they read “perfect for fans of” as “the same as,” which doesn’t make a lot of sense, because those are two different authors and their books aren’t the same. What it’s really saying is, “If you like Snickers bars and Kit Kats, you might also like Twix.” I embrace the comparisons because I admire the hell out of both of them. If I’m even in their ballpark, I’m happy. I have a whole lot of influences, and those two are definitely among them, but I’m striving to be the best me I can be, and tell the kinds of stories I like to read.

I do think one thing our books share, aside from Southerness and grit, is depth of characters, attention to setting, and nuanced storytelling. I think we all try to write multi-faceted, realistic characters, and we strive to be genuine with regional dialogue, and human nature. Another similarity is the story momentum. There are necessary ebbs and flows in the action, but both of those two grab hold of readers and don’t let go. I try to do the same.

As far as being different, there’s only one S.A. Cosby in a whole lot of ways, but I’ve specifically been told my writing isn’t as funny as his, and I’m sure that’s true. Especially this book. However, when I am funny, I tend to be very dry. There are a few deadpan lines in THEY ALL FALL THE SAME that I find hilarious.

I think Eli is a good bit more complex in style than me. He’s more lyrical and weaves more nuanced phrases. There’s also traces of what I’d almost call mysticism in his work. I’m pretty cut and dry. I’m not as spare as Elmore Leonard, but there’s some of his influence in my style.

SW: Chris Offutt called this novel a "high-propulsion narrative." What makes this book move? Why does the reader keep turning pages?

WB: I’ll blame that on two things. My ADHD and Ben Percy. I have a famously short attention span, and I write to hold attention. I also studied for a little bit under Ben Percy, and he changed the way I think about building tension and suspense. I’ve had a bunch of great writing teachers who’ve taught me all kinds of things, but he’s specifically a guru at that.

Not all action has to blow your hair back, and not all tension has to make you clutch the arms of your chair. Some of it hopefully does, but not all of it. Sometimes you just have to tickle the brain into anticipation. I come from a literary background, so I really sweat setting and writing well-rounded characters. So I try to start with that. Because the fact is, you can have all the action you want, but if readers don’t care what happens to the characters, what difference does it make? So you go at a steady pace and let readers keep their breath, you develop your characters, then you get on the gas a little bit. Build action, build tension, create a set piece, pay it off, then slow it back down. Once you’ve cruised for a bit, gradually start building up speed again on the way to the next payoff. Whenever something gripping is in the rear view, be thinking about putting something new on the horizon through the windshield. You do that again and again until you reach that final big set piece. Ideally that’s the peak of a larger arc you’ve been building the whole time.

SW: We already mentioned the Cosby and Cranor feel that people get with your work, but what author has been a surprising influence on you, someone most readers wouldn't expect?

WB: That would be Richard Russo. He writes novels set mostly in the Northeast. They’re character driven books that mix drama and humor. He writes some of the cleverest dialogue you’ll read anywhere. I started reading him in college and I’ve never stopped. I used to write everything in first person, and I haven’t abandoned it, but I started having more success after I read one of his books and decided to change what I was doing. Russo writes what I call voice-heavy third person. I rewrote an entire manuscript from first person into more of his style, and suddenly it worked, and the next thing I know, I published my first book.

***

THEY ALL FALL THE SAME

January 7, 2025 

304 pages

Crooked Lane Books

Get Yours

A Must-Listen Podcast Episode: Roxane Gay & SA Cosby

 

 

By Claire Booth

I’ve been enjoying The Roxane Gay Agenda podcast recently, but was taken to new heights  of love this week when her guest was Shawn Cosby. 

 

I made the mistake of listening to it in the car, which meant scribbling down notes and quotes as I sat at stoplights (at this point, I’d like to formally apologize to the dude in the Nissan Sentra behind me who I caused to miss that green light). 

 

They talk about a variety of things, including of course crime fiction. She’s a big fan of Cosby’s Blacktop Wasteland and Razorblade Tears (both of which I highly, highly recommend and if you’re a longtime DSD reader, you already know he’s a blog alum and a fantastic writer). 

 

It was interesting to hear about the themes he addresses in his work, including the idea of tragic masculinity and how his characters deal with the consequences of their values and beliefs. Often, that involves crime. 

 

"To me, every crime is a confession of pain," he tells Gay.

Listen to the episode here, or wherever you get your podcasts (unless it's Spotify--Gay just pulled her podcast from there).

Launch day for Razorblade Tears

 

This week, Beau takes a look at the newest from S.A.Cosby, Razorblade Tears.

Ike Randolph has been out of jail for fifteen years, with not so much as a speeding ticket in all that time. But a Black man with cops at the door knows to be afraid.

The last thing he expects to hear is that his son Isiah has been murdered, along with Isiah’s white husband, Derek. Ike had never fully accepted his son but is devastated by his loss.

Derek’s father Buddy Lee was almost as ashamed of Derek for being gay as Derek was ashamed his father was a criminal. Buddy Lee still has contacts in the underworld, though, and he wants to know who killed his boy.

Ike and Buddy Lee, two ex-cons with little else in common other than a criminal past and a love for their dead sons, band together in their desperate desire for revenge. In their quest to do better for their sons in death than they did in life, hardened men Ike and Buddy Lee will confront their own prejudices about their sons and each other, as they rain down vengeance upon those who hurt their boys.

Provocative and fast-paced, S. A. Cosby's Razorblade Tears is a story of bloody retribution, heartfelt change - and maybe even redemption.

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An Interview with S.A. Cosby

 

This week, I convinced acclaimed author of BLACKTOP WASTELAND and the upcoming RAZORBLADE TEARS, S.A. Cosby to chat with me about what he's up to, his thoughts on his recent success, and the challenge of writing cops in crime fiction in the very current (and historical) climate of the American police state.

If you haven't read Shawn's stories (and where the hell have you been if you haven't), I highly recommend you remedy that. Keep your eyes peeled for links to his work and the work of others below.

AC: So, since last we spoke (well, in person during the before times), you went off and released BLACKTOP WASTELAND, which I hear people seemed to like (and is releasing in paperback very soon). I mean, just a handful of award nods, glowing reviews, and a production deal, so no biggie. You're also about to release your second novel, RAZORBLADE TEARS (which I also heard is outstanding).

Guess that's a long way to walk to simply ask: how's it going? Has the success caught up with you yet, or is it all still soaking in?

SA: First it’s good to talk to you again my man. To answer the question, it's all incredibly surreal. Like 5 years ago I was getting yelled at by a customer trying to return a drill from the Pre-Cambrian period at my retail job and now my book is being optioned for a film. I got to chat with Walter Mosley. I was able to get a new car that doesn't come with arcane instructions (once you get to 55 you gotta put your arm out the window to keep it from tipping over).

It's more than I could ever have dreamed and it’s a little terrifying! 

 

AC: And to follow up on that. Is there a sense of wariness as you begin new projects with these successes in the proverbial rear view? Not so much the typical anxiety that comes from writing, but of the expectations that can sometimes (often) get laid on creators of color? Is there even a way to mitigate/deal with that kind of nonsense?

SA: Well, I’m aware that now the playing field is a little different. There are a lot of eyes on me watching how the next project will go. And we both know that WOC don't get as many at bats as other writers, so I feel some pressure and anxiety to maintain a certain level of engagement in regard to my writing, but when I sit down to write I put that out of my mind because ultimately that gets in the way of the story...and the story is the thing 

 

AC: Your next novel, RAZORBLADE TEARS, is set to tackle some very heady social topics. A story of two fathers united in a quest to avenge the deaths of their sons - sons who they were estranged from because of their sexual orientation. What led you to tackle subjects like these? Was there something that made this story compel you to make it come to life?

SA: The quick answer is I had a friend, also African American, close to my age, who came out a few years ago to his family and they were not supportive at all. And that person was devastated, and they told me " You know if I could do hair or lead a choir they wouldn't be so upset " and that statement shook me because in many ways it was true. It made me think about how prevalent homophobia is in our communities of color and how that runs parallel to systemic racism. I felt like I needed to talk about these issues in the only way I know how: through the prism of a crime novel. 

 

AC: You mentioned on Twitter that you're working on a third novel involving a black sheriff and you're editing a cop-themed anthology.

Your rep for being provocative maintains, man.

There's been a kerfuffle lately about writing cops in crime fiction and while I'm no fan of copaganda (and I'm comfortable assuming you aren't either) I do believe there's room for true examination of the broken police state. Is this something weighing on you as you write the next novel and as you prep to read through some of the subs that will come piling in soon?

SA: Yeah, I have no interest in writing about super cops who are perfect paladins riding on white horses. You don't have to be a POC to realize that idea is not only fantastical but also dangerous. But I think it’s important to have conversations about how policing affects our communities and our psyches. The book I'm working on is at its core an examination of what happens when a person of color tries to fix the system from the inside only to find out the foundation is rotten, and the house is on fire. The anthology I’m working on with Rock and a Hard Place Press takes this issue one step further with stories told from the point of view of people who are victims of that broken police industrial complex. In both cases I think writing is one of the best ways to talk about these issues. It's like using a mirror to fight a Gorgon. 

 

AC: Let's lighten the mood.

Who should we be reading that we aren't reading? Which authors out there are knocking your socks off?

SA: Oh man I'll give you four 

Yasmin Angoe, she has a great spy novel coming out later this year called HER NAME IS KNIGHT 

Andy Davidson, a fantastic horror writer (The Boatman’s Daughter) 

Heather Levy, (Walking Through Needles) 

Robert Jones Jr. Author of The Prophets 

 

AC: Last question. A little evergreen to cap things off. Name a song that just must be on the playlist for what you're writing these days.

SC: Haha hmmmm 

Hellhound on my Trail by Robert Johnson 

 

 

 

S. A. Cosby is an Anthony Award-winning writer from southeastern Virginia. He is the bestselling author of Blacktop Wasteland, a New York Times Book Review Editors' Choice and Goodreads Choice Awards semifinalist, as well as Brotherhood of the Blade and My Darkest Prayer. When not writing, he is an avid hiker and chess player.