tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7119990365479009764.post5362063127132089782..comments2024-03-14T18:09:09.667-05:00Comments on Do Some Damage: I Done Got SeriousUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7119990365479009764.post-22391325715938156352010-12-01T09:31:48.942-05:002010-12-01T09:31:48.942-05:00Lamar, thanks for the response, good stuff.
Brian...Lamar, thanks for the response, good stuff.<br /><br />Brian, I can tell you that on the TV show I worked on not only was the showrunner not aware of thematic subtext while stories were being constructed, he wasn't interested in talking about those things at all.<br /><br />I suspect most shows, though, are interested in that kind of thing.<br /><br />Storytelling is about manipulating the emotions, isn't it, and it certainly helps to have some control over how that's done.John McFetridgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09442198820998606682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7119990365479009764.post-63323598703917818862010-12-01T09:13:38.826-05:002010-12-01T09:13:38.826-05:00We all have a writer's voice that must come th...<b>We all have a writer's voice that must come through, or the story will be styleless and bland.</b><br /><br />Not all writers have a voice -- in fact most don't and your statement underscores this. I can send you a shit ton of bland books if you'd like to see authors with no voice. <br /><br />But the real reason I wanted to respond was that I've been thinking of the morality gap in fiction recently but in a different way. I've been thinking about how often consumers of fiction (movies, TV, books, etc.) will happily cheer on characters who represent something they disagree with. <br /><br />For example I notice it time and time again with regards to torture. We'll cheer on a character who explicitly or implicitly tortures another character to extract information because in the fictional situation that has been set up and presented to us it's deemed not only appropriate but worthy. So if a person, who otherwise believes themselves to hold a different opinion, roots for a character who tortures another character does that mask a latent belief that the person holds or just someone getting pulled into the narrative structure and arc of the story? <br /><br />All a bit rambly I know but it's representative of what's been going on in my head.<br /><br />I think that often times an author is unaware of thematic subtext when constructing a story. Is it possible that an author becomes so in love with his/her creation that they can't see it for what it is? With regards to this last thought I'm thinking about a book I recently finished reading and what was really going on under the surface.Brian Lindenmuthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519203797661128049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7119990365479009764.post-42388742406860198112010-11-30T16:05:41.835-05:002010-11-30T16:05:41.835-05:00Interesting post there Lamar, thanks.
Plenty of i...Interesting post there Lamar, thanks.<br /><br />Plenty of ideas to chew on.Jay Stringerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08764183157841848163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7119990365479009764.post-62037750238248012482010-11-30T11:58:04.742-05:002010-11-30T11:58:04.742-05:00One of the roles of the storyteller in any society...One of the roles of the storyteller in any society is to create the language through which the audience becomes able to articulate its hopes and fears, and so, to a degree, gain control of those things.<br /><br />To a great degree, storytelling is sympathetic magic. It's no coincidence that "word" and "weird" come from the same linguistic root.<br /><br />As a member of the audience -- the reader -- we each choose to read material that best speaks to whatever hopes and fears we feel at any given moment. We take comfort in doing so, because the act of reading a text, or listening to a song, or playing a game, or what have you, is like a wizard reading an incantation from his spell book, or a priest reading a prayer from his scriptures. It gives us power, or at least a sense of power, that helps us deal with the trauma of living day to day.<br /><br />As storytellers, we take a further step into the shared ritual of creating the story, moving from taking power from other people's words to creating our own power, of refining the magic so that it more strongly deals with our specific hopes and fears. The storyteller, I think, gets more out of the ritual than the reader does. That's appropriate, because the storyteller takes the greater risk, going deeper into the dark cavern than the listener, who always has one foot firmly placed outside the cave's mouth.<br /><br />The thing is, ultimately, however, that the magic created by the shared ritual of storytelling only affects the model of the world we each carry in our heads. It's a tool for viewing the world, not a means of directly affecting the real world outside of ourselves.<br /><br />Because of that, we're willing to allow things and consider things in the story that we wouldn't in reality. The hero of the story can take certain actions and we can accept the hero performing those actions within the context of the story because it isn't real, and our purpose in allowing that to happen isn't necessarily a reflection of what we would find acceptable in the real world. Our hero may kill the villain in the end of the story because doing so allows both the storyteller and audience to experience a certain sort of catharsis. The same thing happening in the real world could well be horrifying and appalling because it is real.<br /><br />I once heard that, while planning the Oklahoma City bombing, Timothy McVeigh told Terry Nichols that he thought of the people in the Murrah Building as "stormtroopers," as in Star Wars. I think that's an example where the storytelling paradigm has failed for that individual because it has failed to reinforce the distinction between the fantasy of the story and reality.<br /><br />I think perhaps that's the sort of thing you refer to as a "moral gap," when our involvement in the story we're telling or experiencing overwhelms our ability to maintain the distinction between the model of the world we each carry in our heads and the real world in which we live. My first impulse was to consider this a contemporary problem, but thinking back, it seems to a recurrent theme throughout history.<br /><br />My 2 cents into the pot, for what it's worth.<br /><br />L.Lamarhttp://www.wildhavencreative.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7119990365479009764.post-8877952087231097582010-11-30T10:54:42.283-05:002010-11-30T10:54:42.283-05:00"Is it tourism or is it something else?"...<i>"Is it tourism or is it something else?"</i><br /><br />Good question. I've never understood visiting somewhere for a short period of time and denying that you're a tourist. Yes, you're a tourist, so what, just don't be an asshole tourist.<br /><br />But it's true, I guess, the main thing that seperates us from animals is our ability to live in denial ;)John McFetridgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09442198820998606682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7119990365479009764.post-45808031720193038552010-11-30T09:42:23.776-05:002010-11-30T09:42:23.776-05:00I plan to return to the 'voice' idea later...I plan to return to the 'voice' idea later on to expand on my thoughts and do them justice.<br /><br />But what I'd add to what you guys have said today is that I think there's a difference to the kind of voice you're identifying -one that becomes clear through good writing- and the distracting kind.<br /><br />Leonards voice becomes clear when you read through his body of work. The charachters, dialogue and plots will vary, but there's a consistent hand at the tiller. <br /><br />I'd say that's different from a writer who let's their voice intrude on the work. <br /><br />Look at the flawed auteur theory in movies. There's a difference between directors who's style and voice becomes apparent over their body of work, and one who is stepping in to deliberately make you aware it's their film.<br /><br />And on a character level, every Tatantino character (aside from in JACKIE BROWN) sounds the same. Different characters all speaking in the same voice. Sane with Kevin Smith. I see that level of intrusion as poor writing, in both novels and films.Jay Stringerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08764183157841848163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7119990365479009764.post-59260815975196630392010-11-30T08:58:06.449-05:002010-11-30T08:58:06.449-05:00Agreed with Dana -- I don't want to the writer...Agreed with Dana -- I don't want to the writer to extricate his or her voice. Otherwise, dullness intrudes.<br /><br />Look at someone like Joe Lansdale -- his voice lives on in the metaphor and dialogue that drives his work. It's a very clear voice, not at all milked dry of its uniqueness. <br /><br />It's why I love his work, honestly.<br /><br />I read dialogue from Lansdale, I know it's his from word one.<br /><br />-- c.Chuckhttp://www.terribleminds.com/ramblenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7119990365479009764.post-70857027437603350772010-11-30T07:57:04.376-05:002010-11-30T07:57:04.376-05:00"Do we explore these issues to challenge that..."Do we explore these issues to challenge that 'moral gap' and see if we can shift the borders, or do we do it to reinforce what we already think?"<br /><br />Yes.<br /><br />I first noticed this when I started blogging. I'd sit down to write about my opinion, only to find it had shifted as I thought about the issue enough to move it from thought to words. The intent had been to reinforce what I thought. It didn't turn out that way. <br />Except for the times I want to wholly re-examine something and find only arguments that buttress my original position. <br /><br />The key element is that what I call writing--the transference of internal ideas to sharable words--requires thought and examination if it is to be worth doing. No telling where you'll go once that genie's out of the bottle.<br /><br />On another note, I disagree somewhat with your comments on voice. We all have a writer's voice that must come through, or the story will be styleless and bland. This may vary from story to story, or it may be consistent as part of an author's style. Elmore Leonard is often extolled as someone who never intrudes himself into his stories, but his voice is as distinctive as anyone's. Hand me a Leonard book I haven't read--if you can find one in print--open to a random page, and I'll bet I can identify him by his voice within a couple of minutes.Dana Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01350344882342624735noreply@blogger.com